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I'm sure WP and the delivery bot are both thinking that it's too bad Florence didn't buy those anvils Niomi was looking at...
Posts: 288 | From: SIyyatlh | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
no those were cinder blocks she was looking at.
-------------------- "iraq has ties to the 9/11 hijackers" "iraq has wmd." "iraq has chemical weapons." "iraq has a active nuclear program."
"...If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it." :Joseph Goebbls. Posts: 620 | From: Cybertron, Iacon Harbor | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
you think she would trust sam with the explosive bolts before she got back?
-------------------- "iraq has ties to the 9/11 hijackers" "iraq has wmd." "iraq has chemical weapons." "iraq has a active nuclear program."
"...If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it." :Joseph Goebbls. Posts: 620 | From: Cybertron, Iacon Harbor | Registered: Oct 2002
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Hard to say. Doesn't Sam still access to that jug of moonshine? Wouldn't she be more concerned about that, since it's most likely much more volatile? So, it's possible that the bolts are fairly stable and fairly inert unless installed and armed.
Posts: 512 | From: L.A. (Lower Arkansas) | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Stuffington Fluffypants--Fluffy: I'm sure WP and the delivery bot are both thinking that it's too bad Florence didn't buy those anvils Niomi was looking at...
posted
Hi-explosives are actually hard to detonate. You need a really hot ignitor to set off something like C-4. You can drop it, throw it against a wall, run over it with a car and nothing will happen. You can even set it on fire and it will simply burn. Stick a blasting cap in it and its a completely different thing. Know what an explosion is? Its an extremely fast fire. Nothing more. The noise is the sonic result of that fire. Drop nitroglycernine and its easily detonated thats why dynamite was such an improvement. They went on from there but thats about it,and that includes nukes.
Posts: 308 | From: PA | Registered: Nov 2001
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quote:Originally posted by docabsinthe: Hi-explosives are actually hard to detonate.
Since the bolts are probably a complete unit, there will be an electrical fuse inside ("Lets see what these bolts do when hooked up to that battery"). It doesn't seem to be a good idea to use high energy explosives in this case anyway. Being ejected with some nasty holes isn't the initial idea, hm? Anybody here who has information about the explosives used on the cabin in jets?
posted
I thought the bolts were to blow the ceiling panel, giving a bit less resistance to whomever gets ejected. Of course, something has to propel the ejection seat, but I'm not sure explosives are the way to go. More likely, some sort of small rocket booster?
Posts: 512 | From: L.A. (Lower Arkansas) | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Wolfram Tungsten: I thought the bolts were to blow the ceiling panel, giving a bit less resistance to whomever gets ejected.
Yes. Have a look over here. The shaped charges in combination with lead shielding severe the canopy. I haven't any data on the volatility of HNS but it is named "mild explosive" ... A more powerfull explosive + metal could result in propelled parts in the cockpit severing the pilot. What is the ceiling made of anyway?
-------------------- "iraq has ties to the 9/11 hijackers" "iraq has wmd." "iraq has chemical weapons." "iraq has a active nuclear program."
"...If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it." :Joseph Goebbls. Posts: 620 | From: Cybertron, Iacon Harbor | Registered: Oct 2002
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A little trick they taught us in the Army was that a 105mm tank shell can be set off with a flashlight battery. Just in case you have a disabled tank and don't want to leave it for the enemy. I won't go into detail but 1.5 volts is enough to set a round off. That sets off a primer that ignites the propellant. Hook up some wire and be ready to run fastly. --doc
Posts: 308 | From: PA | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
Gonna have to call ya on that one Doc. Modern tank shells (and 20mm and 30mm cannon shells as used in the GAU-8 in the A-10 and the M61 in the F-15 and F-16s, as well as several variants of chain guns as used in attack helicopters, etc) are indeed electrically ignited, but they take a very specific voltage and current to fire.
I don't recall the specifics, and Google isn't finding me what I want, but I seem to remember it's something like 35 to 37 volts at X amps. A higher or lower voltage or a higher or lower amperage would not ignite it.
This is because most military electrical systems are 24 volts, with some systems being 48V. Naturally, they don't want battle-damage-induced shorts to ignite the shells. Moreover, if a mere 1.5V could ignite it, simple static electricity (which flying aircraft produce in spades) could set them off.
In any case, if it did fire with a simple battery and a couple lengths of wire, there's no "get ready to run away" gonna happen unless you have a timer of some kind. The round would fire the millisecond you completed the circuit- part of the reason they use an electrical ignition is to reduce the "lock time", the period of time it would take for a mechanical system, like a spring-driven firing pin, to ignite the round.
Doing what you say with the round out of the breech is suicide- you might as well be touching the battery to a detonator stuck in a block of TNT. Even if the shell was in a cannon breech, to reach the primer the breechblock would have to be open- again, "manually" detonating the round would at the very least shear your arms off as the case comes rocketing out the back.
Getting back to the "explosive bolts", there's two dozen different types of "bolt". Some are literally a threaded fastener, held with a nut, and containing a small charge of an explosive. The Space Shuttle, as I recall, is "bolted" to the launch gantry with a large handful of them, which are blown to release it from the external supports during launch. The solid rocket boosters are jettisoned in a similar fashion- one charge seperates the connection, another forces the booster away from the shuttle.
Other "bolts" are just pins, a solid bar sometimes of magnesium that contains an ignitor wire. These don't so much "blow" as "burn away very rapidly". Sometimes the pin is a low melting point metal like tin, with a thin core of magnesium powder. There's also "explosive rivets" and other shapes, too.
I forget where I read it, but I recall an article about a hatchway held in by a combustible, rubberized O-ring. When the hatch had to open- only in emergencies of some sort- the ignitor fired, which caused this O-ring to burn away very rapidly- as in Det-cord fast (milliseconds) but without the high-energy shockwave of a true explosive.
"Explosive bolts" are very specific to each application- as noted, the "bolts" that jettison a fighter aircraft canopy can't be so powerful they throw shrapnel at the pilots.
quote:Originally posted by Wolfram Tungsten: Hard to say. Doesn't Sam still access to that jug of moonshine? Wouldn't she be more concerned about that, since it's most likely much more volatile? So, it's possible that the bolts are fairly stable and fairly inert unless installed and armed.
quote:Originally posted by docabsinthe: Hi-explosives are actually hard to detonate. You need a really hot ignitor to set off something like C-4. You can drop it, throw it against a wall, run over it with a car and nothing will happen. You can even set it on fire and it will simply burn. Stick a blasting cap in it and its a completely different thing. Know what an explosion is? Its an extremely fast fire. Nothing more. The noise is the sonic result of that fire. Drop nitroglycernine and its easily detonated thats why dynamite was such an improvement. They went on from there but thats about it,and that includes nukes.
Normally, I would agree heartily with all these statements. However, we're talking about Sam here. He manages to make things explode and catchfire without even intending to. And these are things that aren't really what you would call flammable. Sam with actual explosives would be even more spectacular. The moonshine would have been a lot more dangerous if Sam hadn't drunk more of it than he exploded.
quote:Originally posted by Rennen: I don't recall the specifics, and Google isn't finding me what I want, but I seem to remember it's something like 35 to 37 volts at X amps. A higher or lower voltage or a higher or lower amperage would not ignite it.
That would require electronics inside. Normally, its simply a thin wire with high specific resistance, surrounded by a low ignited mixture. Depending on the usage of the fuse, additional explosives to reach the destined specifications.
quote:Originally posted by Rennen: Naturally, they don't want battle-damage-induced shorts to ignite the shells. Moreover, if a mere 1.5V could ignite it, simple static electricity (which flying aircraft produce in spades) could set them off.
Its not the voltage that ignites the fuse, its the amperage. With static electricity, you're not likely to get above the lower limit (where it mustn't ignite) of 0.18 A of SN0 bridge fuses. And these are the least sensible ones. Lightning is more interesting in this case since the high currents in the bolt could induce current in shorted out ignition circuits. The upper limit where the fuse must ignite within 10 ms is 0.6 A. With typical resistance of 2 Ohm, thats 1.2 Volt ...
Yes. Have a look over here. The shaped charges in combination with lead shielding severe the canopy. I haven't any data on the volatility of HNS but it is named "mild explosive" ... A more powerfull explosive + metal could result in propelled parts in the cockpit severing the pilot. What is the ceiling made of anyway?
CJ
Couldn't find out much about HNS myself, CJ, but by definition a mild explosive is something along the lines of a fast burning smokeless gunpowder, the type that goes in shotgun shells.
Posts: 512 | From: L.A. (Lower Arkansas) | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
Nice job LD Cleaning softdrink of the screen Now let's see if we push that thing into the red Posts: 887 | From: Chicago | Registered: Jul 2002
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Anybody here who has information about the explosives used on the cabin in jets?
